1. Student

   I can’t undervalue the Pixar teachers’ contribution by just thanking them. You guys hold special respect among the students.

   Being an international student, I feel sorry for foreign students who joined AAU hoping to get into the Pixar classes. AAU is expensive, and for foreign students it’s even more expensive, as they go through a lot of financial difficulties paying for the college. Without these classes, I doubt if any animation student at AAU will even get a job, forget getting into Pixar.

   So far the animation students at AAU are atleast doing decent work, thanks to the Pixar class students who help out the other students working in the labs. Hope these classes return before the Pixar class students graduate.

   December 18, 2008 @ 12:48 am
   

2. Another student

   I have nothing to say, but support rep#1.
   All of that is 100% like my thinking.

   We wish Pixar class will come back soon.

   December 18, 2008 @ 1:06 am
   

3. Matthew

   “It seemed to me as if many of the students coming into the class just wanted to be “shot animators” Animators who could be trained and then put on a film. Students that just wanted to work for Pixar. That’s fine, but we felt they were missing out on making their own films. …The big issue is more about how the rest of the curriculum supports the student to not only be an animator but a film maker.”

   Andrew,

   The animation feature film industry seems to breed specialization, and as such doesn’t offer or promote opportunities for anyone who’s well rounded as a ‘film maker’. At Pixar, for example, how would one apply for work as a ‘film maker’?

   In an ideal world anyone working in the film industry would be knowledgeable about all aspects of the medium, but this isn’t practical today. I’d ENJOY learning many aspects of film production, but I can’t do so without gainful employment, which requires specialization.

   Matthew

   December 18, 2008 @ 1:21 am
   

4. Fatty lees

   I got my MFA from the aac back in 2002 and it was the same story back then. The school lacks a standardized ciriculum for all the different level animation classes and in the end it hurts everybody…especially the students. I was lucky and was taught by some really great teachers/animators like Dave and Lisa Mullins. If it werent for them, I sure ass hell wouldn’t have gotten where i am now…I hope aac gets it’s act together so students don’t suffer and miss the opportunities that can be had.

   December 18, 2008 @ 1:28 am
   

5. Jean

   I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that an animator should have a greater sense of film making as a whole.

   That said, I have to say that Matthew has made a valid point. The industry does not reward a well rounded artist or filmmaker. Being a well rounded artist is good, but you need to be able to make a living off of it as well.
   My animation education in Toronto was pretty broad and really expanded my horizons artistically. However when it came time to find work, there wasn’t a company around that would give me the time of day. I hadn’t specialized enough. They didn’t care about my student films.

   Students that neglected subjects to specialize in one specific area were rewarded with employment.
   Students that went to schools with 12-18 month intensive programs that focus on one tiny little aspect of the industry were rewarded with employment and given opportunities to advance in the industry and grow.

   So while I agree 150% with Andrew Gordon, I have to say that our industry breeds the kind of attitude we’re seeing. To survive in our field, students are almost obliged to take on this tunnel vision approach.

   December 18, 2008 @ 8:24 am
   

6. Stephen Gregory

   Hey guys!
   I haven’t posted here in awhile, but I thought I would drop in my perspective on this subject.

   I taught the Pixar classes for about 5 years and left right before the mass exodus. Mainly I left due to the fact I no longer was going to be employed at Pixar. I chose to leave Pixar after 12 years and didn’t think it would be right to continue teaching in that program when there are so many wonderful animators at Pixar who could replace me and teach. I’m really sorry to see the program collapse, and I too had the same frustrations as Andrew but it was not my reason for leaving. Teaching there and getting to know the students I did teach and seeing them achieve their animation goals are truly the most rewarding moments of my career.

   That being said, Andrew is right and we all talked about it so much. That it is so important for students to be learning about film making and want to be film makers. Shot animators are great for production but in the end they are not good for the industry. The industry more than ever needs new ideas and stories to remain healthy into the future. It’s sad to hear you all say that you need to just focus on doing anim tests to get a job, I can understand this. It just makes me so sad. When I started in my career the films you made in school were your calling card that’s how you got a job. My films were very limited animation wise but I think they showed some sort of promise, something unique, something different that set me apart from others? This is what ultimately landed me my job at Pixar. I still feel Pixar values originality and creativity in the animators it hires. I know my frustration while sitting in recruiting meetings was the constant showing of very little creativity, or uniqueness. It made picking potential hires really hard and when it came to students almost down right impossible. My opinion is this, and it was laid upon me while in school. “School is the only time in your life you are able to do what you want to do. Once you start working you no longer will have the opportunity to do what it is you want. You will be doing what someone else wants you to do for a very long time.” Even if you think you need to do certain things to get a job, you don’t really know this to be true. Those tests may have worked in the past, but the tastes of the industry and the people hiring is always changing. After see years of the same tests over and over from students you start to crave for anything remotely different and personal. In the end I would gladly not hire someone with beautiful polished tests, and take someone with some originality. Unfortunately I don’t own a multibillion dollar studio to hire you. Like everything it’s about finding that balance, between doing what you want and showing someone your unique perspective on life, and at the same time showing them that you can do what they need you to do too.

   Hope this helps,
   –Dr. Stephen G.

   December 18, 2008 @ 11:27 am
   

7. Former Academy Grad Student

   The above comment I think only supports the problem of the Academy and other schools around the globe. There is this idea of pushing all your skills into one area. But in doing so, what does that produce?

   It produces a cog. And if that cog doesn’t fit into the machine of a studio, what’s a cog to do? Because if a studio doesn’t pick you up, now you’ve got no other options for yourself. In this industry and in this economy, you have to keep yourself open to all options of employment. Find your drive and don’t feel too entitled.

   When I attended the Academy, I made sure to take other classes besides 3d. I took sculpture, lots of drawing and 2d animation classes(which are getting better all the time. Sherrie and Ed are doing a great job over there).

   These classes combined to make me a better artist and a more well-rounded person. And more versatile as well. AND more prepared for when I got into the Pixar classes.

   Me and some friends used to joke about a lot of the students at the school, saying they had “pixar-itis” or “the pixar syndrome”. By that I mean there were a lot of people who, if they weren’t accepted into the Pixar classes, dropped out of school. From my experience taking the Pixar classes I learned a lot and improved a ton during those classes, but it was also the work I did in my other classes and from my other teachers that helped me to get to where I am now.

   I was really sad to hear about the Pixar classes being canceled and I was one of the people who signed the petition to retain them at the school. I feel like a lot of students aren’t going to get to learn from those guys and that’s a shame. But I would recommend that before a student considers dropping out, they look at the other classes the school has to offer and think about why they are there at the Academy.

   And…regardless of what I say about the school or students I feel that there were two things that game me a good education at the academy. First, the support and criticism of all my fellow students in all the departments I had contact with. And second the support of all my teachers, including the teachers in the Pixar classes. Through all of their efforts I am able to achieve my goals.

   December 18, 2008 @ 11:41 am
   

8. Stephen Gregory

   Hear, Hear!

   Great comment, Former Grad Student.
   I’d like to add something your comment reminded me of. While I attended Cal-Arts we all felt our teachers were bad, etc. and that the previous years were better, etc. The thing I now realize is the great thing about school and animation school in particular, is that more than the teachers and more than the curriculum I learned more from my fellow class mates. Being in a place where so many people share the same passion and are also learning at the same time as you are the people you’ll learn from the most, they can relate to your problems, and successes. They are also in the trenches with you. These are your true teachers in school. Plus later in life they become the industry and your connections to jobs. I highly recommend not working in a bubble at school. Work in the labs, find friends you trust and help each other. I feel these are the most successful animators.

   December 18, 2008 @ 11:52 am
   

9. babaloo

   gotta say I agree with the others. Long gone are the days when a film showing potential was the way to get in, have you seen the demo’s we’re up against these days, the ones that are actual competition take those little short exercises and infuse an entire film’s worth of story and emotion into them (I mean look at Cameron Miyazaki’s student balls on a fence test!) so if we can’t hit that level in a single shot there’s no point in trying to show it in a film where you have to waste time with establishing shots that will probably get your demo ejected for not starting off strong. (how many short films have you skipped ahead a few minutes because it starts off slow establishing place, mood, title and credits? if you can’t grab attention and entertain in a single shot a film’s just a longer slower opportunity to fail)

   And on the other side, (this is obviously from an outsider so could be way off) look how long it takes for an animator to actually use any film making skills they have, Navone and Sweetland just started directing and they’ve been there for 10-15 years or so. There’s only ever a few captain seats, but many more seats at the oars. (I’m still waiting for a Bluth/UPA like exodus where the head row-ers tired of looking at the filled captain seats go and build their own boat (oh wait, isn’t that how AM got started http://bobbyboom.blogspot.com/2007/11/do-you-miss-animating-or-leaving-pixar.html))

   honestly I’m glad the Pixar teachers have left the Academy. The Academy has always gouged their students in my opinion ($500 a unit, 5 unit classes, plus a mandatory 3 unit lab fees for a lab you’ll never use because your home computer’s better!). I think the Academy has coasted on the Pixar classes being their selling point and helping forge strong student reels, but that left the majority of students (who couldn’t get in) out in the cold with insufficient skills and bad debt. (Not to say there aren’t other teachers at the academy who are good, I’ve learnt a lot from Haas and Cooperman’s teacher blogs, but non-Pixar class graduate reels are painful to watch)

   What would be awesome is if the Pixar teachers formed an Animation Atelier. Forget the whole formal beurocratic academia, set it up like a co-op learning center, where everyone learns from each other, teaches each other, and is tiered (challenging with demo reels to get to the next higher level, judged by the people in that level) with the top tier being small private groups chosen and taught by the Pixar teachers (with only the top tier paying, and paying you directly, like Stephen Gregory and Keith Lango’s private tutoring.) And each level helps/leads the level below like Teachers Assistance, maybe invite previous students so you could start the tiers right away. (because you guys have so much free time to do this kind of thing , guess you could always just become Animation Mentors and let them deal with the organizing)

   umm, hope this rant hasn’t been offensive to anyone (except the prez of AAU ) Hope this means there’s more time for more spline posts.

   December 18, 2008 @ 12:22 pm
   

10. Student

    Just like you guys want the students to make their own films, the students too need studios which appreciate that.

    Animation classes at the academy are focused on nailing the physicality instead of getting the heart right.

    December 18, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
    

11. Stephen Gregory

    I guess, the definition of film might need to be defined. I agree tests like Cameron’s are awesome and I consider those types of test films. Just something original that shows a beginning middle and end, with character. Just because it’s labeled film doesn’t mean it has to be long, multiple shots and have credits.

    The oars vs. captain comment. True there is really little space in the directing chair at most studios. The thing people don’t think about is that film making skills are more important to shot animation than polish in my opinion. Understanding how to tell a story visually, emotional arcs and beats of characters, character motivations, and composition are huge benefits to your run of the mill guy rowing the boat. These are the things that makes certain animation stand out from the crowd. The best animators in the world are masters at the craft of film making, just like Doug Sweetland, Victor Navone, John Lasseter, and Brad Bird. Amazing animators who happen to be amazing film makers, actors, designers, storytellers, and artists.

    December 18, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
    

12. Another Student

    My understanding (and my experience with AAU) is that this sad situation was a direct result of Pixar being unable to work with the Academy’s poorly-managed and greedy bureaucracy.

    December 18, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
    

13. Dr Gordon

    Im glad this is being discussed. Stephen has pointed out some very good stuff as other people have as well. While animation is a skill which needs to be learned like any other, it does not have to be learned much like and electrician learns. I only wish I had more time to make more films at school because you do end up working for someone else doing their work. The classes did produce amazing work and most got jobs, but Stephen hit the nail on the head in regards to the industry needing more creative leaders and less cogs.

    I hope to start posting more soon. Things are just very busy.

    thanks for listening.

    -Andrew

    December 18, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
    

14. Academy Student too

    I think in the long run this is a much better for the Academy. As hard as it sounds and sux for the students who haven’t yet got into the pixar classes, I’m hoping the AAU will get its act together and stop taking students money and leaving them with no job opportunity. Beyond the pixar classes, the AAU has close to nothing to offer its students.

    December 18, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
    

15. Rico

    To the previous post, Academy Student too. Yes, hopefully not having Pixar classes will make the school better but you can’t say it has nothing to offer. Not every school has Pixar animators or this type of caliber of instructors in their animation programs, except for Animation Mentor. I’m sure at every school you’ll hear the same complaints to some various degree. Greedy, don’t care.. the curriculum is screwed up, poorly-managed and the bureaucracy. Honestly, it’s what you put in is what you get out off it. Be it making time to make a short or exercises, it’s what you do with your time in school, hopefully ends up on your reel.

    So what should the Academy do if they recognize the problem? Offer more story development classes? More student collaborative shorts? We can complain about the Academy and point fingers but what would be a solution? And yes I went to the Academy.

    December 18, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
    

16. Jean-Denis Haas

    Thanks babaloo!

    Being an ex-student and current teacher at the AAU gives me an interesting perspective, but it doesn’t seem to me like things have changed that much since I graduated.

    The Pixar classes were great and it’s not surprising that people will miss them, I do think though that it’s also a well needed kick in the butt for the AAU to get their stuff together. It’s tough for them though when you don’t have enough teachers willing to work there. What I’m struggling with is the amount of students. There are just way too many in one class. Either you critique the shots with little lectures here and there to explain the problems/fixes and barely make it time wise, or you give a lecture and fly through the shots. Either way is not really working. But how can you convince the school to set a limit of 10 to 13 students (in a non Group Directed Study course) when they don’t have enough teachers?

    About the cog/shot oriented students. I completely agree that animators should be REQUIRED to have an understanding of film making. It’s not just about animation, there’s so much more to it. I have to admit though that I’m a heavy supporter of single shots as opposed to shorts. That’s mostly due to my experience as a foreigner and with work VISAs.
    Creating a short takes a lot of time and chances are you might not have enough of it or the end result is okay but not outstanding. So now you graduate with a so-so demo reel and as a foreigner you have one year before they send you back to your home country. That’s a lot of pressure. So instead of spending time on figuring out lighting, fx, sound, etc. you could use it to perfect your animation skills in order to get more polished shots. Yes, I know it’s not just about polish, but the reality is that a lot of places can’t take chances when hiring people, they don’t have the time to teach polish to new hires. A reel has to show that they are production ready. But the benefit is that a foreigner gets a job and the coveted H1B work VISA. Once you have that a lot of your worries are gone. Yes, it’s hard to find another position once a project is done, but at least the company has to only deal with VISA transfers, not a whole new and costly application, which improves your chances of getting hired. Once you have a job (and take whatever you can, don’t be a snob about company preferences), you’re free to go back to learning the proper ways of film making without VISA pressures.

    Again, I’m not saying that film making education is not needed, but for certain people the priorities are different, whether they like it or not.

    December 18, 2008 @ 9:01 pm
    

17. Academy Student too

    its a range of problems. for one, the school is not portfolio based so there are great numbers of students who enter the college. also another problem is that there are a lack of teachers like J.D Haas mentioned. I had to supplement my education at AAU with animation mentor because i simply wasn’t learning anything worthwhile. Now I maybe be a harsh critic, but most of my frustrations are not just my own but whole groups of students who are very dedicated to what they are learning yet aren’t getting any kind of real education. Going beyond 50 thousand dollars in debt and having no job prospect after that because the curriculum is inadequate is not acceptable.

    December 18, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
    

18. canadian student

    I come from another school you are affiliated with in canada, where film making is addressed with the animation. Sadly they focus you so much on making a film the majority of ppl come out with little understanding of animation, and a bad film, that won’t get you hired anywhere.
    The percentage of good student films being made is incredibly minute. Rigging, modelling, lighting, rendering, layout, design, camera and compositing are big fishes to fry on there own, putting animation and storytelling aside, which personally are the only two that really matter to me and im sure 99% of the ppl who sign up for an animation course as well.
    I’ve seen good ones but these are being done by ppl who have been in school for years and years.

    December 18, 2008 @ 11:20 pm
    

19. Marcus Scott

    “The industry does not reward a well rounded artist or filmmaker. Being a well rounded artist is good, but you need to be able to make a living off of it as well.”

    These are not mutually exclusive. Being a well rounded artist widens your abilities. And making a film (a good one, hopefully) is the best resume’.

    The industry doesn’t owe YOU anything. They don’t have to reward you for anything other than giving you a check for work they’ve hired you to do. The more you can do, the more employable you’ll be. Quite simple.

    Being able to do “shots” to get a job is fine. But frankly, virtually every animator worth their salt didn’t get into animation because they wanted to get rich. They did it because they love film, and love telling stories with animation. They’re great film makers, not just great animators.
    And understanding the animation part of film making will give you a greater respect of the MANY other departments you might think about working your way into, like story, or art, or layout, or set dressing, or texturing, or modelling.

    Andrew is right. The problem isn’t the students, it’s the school. Sadly, this is a problem at many schools, even CalArts. Animation is a bit over-exposed. It’s INCREDIBLY difficult to do, and even more incredibly difficult to do WELL. And on a feature project, it’s incredibly difficult to do well by a factor of 10, because there are so many people contributing. How the Pixar animators maintain consistant character personalities astonishing, and frankly, sublime. They make it look easy. But I’d bet they push themselves a helluva lot harder than the studio does!

    The more wide your skill sets are, and the better communication skills you have, the more valuable you are to studios. If you’re just looking to get a job at a game company or fx house moving characters around, that’s fine, but you’re putting the power into the hands of any company you work for.

    December 18, 2008 @ 11:22 pm
    

20. Stephen Gregory

    FYI, There really is no money in animation. If there is and someone knows where to find it can you let me know?

    You’ll make a good living at a huge studio, but your not gonna be rolling in the Benjamins if you know what I mean. Places like the Bay Area with a high cost of living and people leaving school with huge school loans, it can’t be about the money because there really isn’t any. Animation is all about the love for it and your love for telling stories and creating believable performances. That’s really what keeps you going it’s not the dollar, otherwise choose a different career.

    I’ve said this before but I’m really saddened by everyone’s thoughts on film making, and telling stories. I understand where you all are coming from and I know that ultimately in the end your going to school to become employed, but it’s sad. I understand it’s also a problem with the studios not supporting that type of animator, which sucks. It will change trust me.

    Also thanks Jean-Denis Haas, for commenting. I do think that students can get to caught up in what they don’t have and sometimes can’t appreciate what they do.

    December 19, 2008 @ 11:47 am
    

21. Erik Lee

    I just graduate from AAU, and here is something i see in general.
    In graduate school, I think the school REALLY wants students to focus on their short film, which is Dr. Gordon mentioned: film making. There are tones of classes you have to take just for the thesis short, such as drawing, basic of maya, rigging, texturing, storyboarding, preproduction…and 6 of directed study classes just for thesis. Therefore, I think AAU does want student learn about film making in graduate school.

    Even though they seems to support student to become not just a shot animator but a film maker, the result is, 90% students i know(not all of them), spent about half year on concept developing, storyboarding and character design. After they pass the mid-point review, they spent almost ONE year on modeling, rigging and texturing. Which is not really an animation student wants to learn and i don’t think they enjoy it. Than what’s the next? they’re going to have their final review on 2 or 3 mouths later. So, they animate the whole thing super fast in very short time and doing music, editing as well, and than present.

    Let’s say these students love animation and they wanna get an animation job, but their demo reel has some ok-ok animation tests(becouse of thesis, they can’t really spent time on them.), and a thesis with very rough animation(only exception will be if someone can animate at lease 1 min animation short in 3 mouth and kick ass.). I don’t know where he will get the job.

    I never see a 3D short is finished by only one person, even AM’s shorts come out very nicely, most of they’re using AM’s model and rig, which is be seen over and over again. It’s almost impossible to be a one man army in 3d short, you have to deal with modeling, rigging…these technical problem and something is not you want to focus. At the end, you even need to deal with lighting and rendering, even you keep it very minimal.

    For my personal experience in AAU, I think they notice this, but not really try to deal with it. I always surprised by the short films from Ringling and Goblin. How come they can produce such high details shorts on every parts? how they put everything together and almost look like a studio work? I guess the way how they made it, is the way out for AAU.

    Another solution in my opinion is what pixar class3 use to do. make students working on a big project together like Virgin Voyage. It looks like you working in a small studio and the teachers are your supervisor. I wasn’t have a chance to get in P3 and I don’t know how much i can learn about film making in that class. But I think it will help a lot for not just animate a shot, but see through the whole film, learn about the film making.

    I think the film making is really really important not just for getting a job, but AAU needs a better system to support it. Otherwise, students are going to graduate and standing on middle of nowhere, waste time and a lot of money.

    December 19, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
    

22. Jean-Denis Haas

    Hey Erik,

    yeah, the P3 class idea of doing a short emulating a production environment was and is a great idea. I hope it continues in some form. What was great about the Pixar classes was the fact that your reel needed to be good enough in order to get accepted, so the competition factor really pushed you to do the best you can.
    I can also see though how people could feel like “animation left overs” if they didn’t make it into one of those classes. The AAU definitely needs to find a balance in terms of quality of classes. Variety is also needed. Cartoony animation, game animation, fx house animation, etc. classes. I definitely hover more towards realistic animation due to my exposure to it at work. So I feel bad for students in my class who’d like to do hardcore cartoony work.
    It would also be cool to have a broader rig library (kids, old people, animals, as well as sets, props, etc.). It’s easy for me to request those things of course and I wish I could help out with rigs (I just don’t have the time…).

    Do you guys think that the AAU could hire outside character designers and riggers and have them provide new rigs? Does anybody have experience with that and how the AAU responded? I’ll ask the AAU as well of course.

    December 19, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
    

23. Former Academy Student #3

    This has been a great discussion. Everyone has incredibly valid points/concerns/comments. The way I see it as a former student is that yes, having a short film is a great personal accomplishment and yes, having strong skills in your area of focus is key in getting a job and also executing your own personal work. What the Academy curriculum could do is really utilize how students learn from other students (thanks Former Academy Grad #1 for bringing that up). For example:

    1) In animation mechanics or the beginner animation classes (the 2D ones that everyone has to take), not everyone is a good character designer. How about getting character design students to create stock characters as an excercise in their curriculum that can be used by animators for their beginning class work so that they’re not struggling to animate bad designs. They can learn from the stock characters and improve their design sense. The character design students also get a solid foundation by designing these basic characters and can learn from those exercises.

    2) Not every 3D animator is a good modeler. When it comes time for their thesis film, why not get modeling students to model thesis characters as an exercise in their classes. That way they’ll get used to modeling someone else’s design and generate ideas and skills for their own future individual projects. Plus, the professor’s are there to ensure quality control so that the thesis student is given back a decent, polished model.

    3) Rigging is a whole other ball game. Great riggers are key in animation and I have the utmost respect for them. Have students in rigging classes rig thesis models as a class excercise, again with professor’s providing quality control.

    And on and on and on………….

    I’m not saying this is an ideal system, but it might create a cycle that gives everyone the opportunity to learn from other students and get around issues that affect the time they get to work on their focused skill.

    December 19, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
    

24. Dr. StephenG

    Working together is key for sure in a 3d production environment, I agree Student 3. I still think the concept of what a film is could change a bit. Not lighting, Not rendering, using pre-built rigs, etc. I think are all valid. When we did films at cal-arts, we made films or tried to make films that focused on what we wanted to do. So someone who like story boarding there film may have been mainly storyboards. Someone into animation their film may have been a small simple character piece, Or instead of finishing the whole project just animated the shots with the most acting potential. If you like cinematography and layout your film would have been more focused in that direction, with limited animation etc. Employers, I feel don’t care if your film looks finished or not, it’s only festivals who care about that stuff. So spend your time telling a story and focusing on what you like about animation. It’s never going to be perfect in any environment, but a more rounded education in art and film making I think are the real key. The advantage to a school like the AAU or Cal-Arts, Ringling, etc. is that they are full art schools with many disciplines, which you can be exposed to while in school.
    I know it may have been stupid of me but while I was in school I never focused on getting a job, I focused on learning the most I could in all aspects the school could provide for me. I guess I just figured it would work out in the end, which lucky for me it did. I do feel that my success has been solely based upon my desire to be a more rounded artist and I never wanted to be an oar.

    December 19, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
    

25. Hammy

    Firstly, wow this post really sparkled a LOT of interesting thoughts and discussion. So thank you so MUCH for making it in the first place, and everyone else who has come out and commented. I am definitely finding this interesting and very enlightening.

    As I have taken animation course as my undergrad, I was actually expecting a lot more from the Academy of their Graduate programs and classes, to be filled with stronger syllabus or really experienced instructors and all. Eventually I realize that wasn’t the case.. I did know they have their reason, because they accepted students with no Animation background at all into their Masters too. It became hard to ‘balance’ the standard for their program. Regardless, it’s MASTERS…. And I really thought it would be different from the Undergrads program with higher expectation, more advanced classes and so on. But more often the Graduate students find themselves wanting the Undergrad program instead.. Imagine if I were to study with AAU for their animation undergrads, and decided to further my study to MFA in animation but realize it’s not even worth it since it’s mostly repeated classes…?

    Then, I was counting on the Pixar class… (which is also for the undergrads… ) I have heard so much great reviews about it, hoping it would make my time in the Academy’s graduate program worth while. I was then being slap with this stupid University rule that I can only apply for the Pixar class only after my midpoint. I tried to pass it as soon as I could, and when I did, The Pixar class is gone!!! …. I sometimes felt following the University rules was a stupid decision of mine since I have heard of people getting into that class before they pass their midpoint. It’s quite unfair, but I guess the ‘obedient’ people losses out! Oh well! Another lesson learned, disobey school rules when they are stupid rules to begin with, plus I am paying them in the first place. Of course, it made me realize, the University isn’t entirely about helping students, they are into playing some kind of a game with their students. I don’t know…

    I was really looking forward to trying out at least one Pixar class while I am still in the Academy. Nonetheless, I respect the teacher’s decision to leave and I will just have to work extra harder on my own… The other thing that drove me frustrated is, that while I hate to say this, but I really want to be in a class full of other enthusiastic student as well. I don’t think having ‘not so motivated’ students in my class hurts me that much because I pretty much do most things on my own, but with other enthusiastic students it’s always an extra push, which I do need that. Pixar class ‘gathers’ who they think are enthusiastic/ good enough and I felt it’s a nice thing, it probably isn’t good for those who didn’t get in, but it kind of also serves as a ‘benchmark’ or goal for them to keep trying to get in.

    One of my prime reason of wishing to take at least one Pixar class is mainly because I wanted to learn how they make the class great and so well received. It might come the day that it’s my turn to help others than me depending on others, and I always look forward to classes with instructors that are very driven. So far I think I only learned this mostly from Tom Bertino and JD (who I am VERY grateful to have in AAU), but aside from that I feel like I am just listening to the instructor teaching directly from a text book or something, most of the time sitting behind the monitor and teaching from it than being very active, concerned of what questions the students always have and so on. There’s probably more other great teachers in AAU but I just haven’t come across yet, so I’m not trying to single out the other instructors in AAU.

    Sorry that was long, I could go on and on, I hope I didn’t offend anyone with my opinions.

    December 19, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
    

26. QueensBridgePencils

    There are a lot of valid points and this is a great discussion. It doesn’t matter what studio you work for or what school you attend. It depends on your own personal drive and what you do with it. I have a few friends that went to the Academy and pushed on there own to become professional animators (in films and games). No one can teach you how to be driven or give you passion about something. Working on a personal film to get a job can give you a big headache….not because its hard but because you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

    Over time we have watched these studios get bigger and more production heavy (and it doesn’t matter if its film, games, or direct to DVD). This is built off of a cycle of making money (and yes we all want to eat) and the problem with this cycle is….”yes Billy X can get a job here because he shows promise..not only that… he will be cheap”. The inexpensive animator who shows promise helps keep the machine going. The machine that pays for the executives houses, kids trust funds, multiple cars, and trips. So the kid who does the well polished tests and is willing to stay in an apartment with 4 other guys, sleep under his desk, and let his or her health deteriorate is a good candidate for helping the big machines make movies. He can be trained to be a better animator by being around the guys who are already seasoned vets. So it makes sense for some of these younger guys who want to eat to just focus on how to animate…

    I never focused on getting a job when I was in school either. I wanted to work with the guys I looked up to..who came from similar backgrounds that loved art, cartoons, comics, and animation. I don’t think that is the case anymore. As someone put it..animation is overexposed to the point where people are just doing it. I agree with Stephen that being well rounded are key to having a strong career, but I am sure it is a hard balance if you are coming to the industry with a different focus in mind. Basically the industry is changing and there are a lot of studios mimicking each other. A lot of animation jobs pop up and go away.

    With that being said…students I think the days of the big studios are slowing down. The internet is your friend..focus on film making as well as animation and get your voice out.

    December 19, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
    

27. Dr. StephenG

    QueensBridgePencils, you are a genius well said. +1

    December 19, 2008 @ 5:43 pm
    

28. Dr. StephenG

    If I was young and smart I’d work for these guys. Super cool stuff, great original studio.
    http://www.studioaka.co.uk/studioaka_files/movies/7b9eef3e3dba269680535fbc8b8a3004.mov

    December 19, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
    

29. QueensBridgePencils

    and these guys are having too much fun….

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/5051/

    December 19, 2008 @ 6:03 pm
    

30. Dave Vasquez

    This topic strikes a chord in me because I also attended the Academy. I’m chiming in late here, but thought I’d offer my own experience for what it’s worth. I graduated from the Academy way back in 2001. I got to take 2 of the Pixar classes with Angus MacLane and Adam Wood who were phenomenal teachers. In fact, if it weren’t for those classes, I don’t think I would have landed my first job right out of school. The thing that was frustrating was this was my last year of school but I was just learning how to animate. I left the Academy feeling I barely scratched the surface (and now had a whopping school debt to pay off) and that motivated me to do the Animation Mentor program so I could get a solid foundation.

    I’m not sure what the answer for the Academy is. I think several people have made some great suggestions. One thing that I wonder about when comparing the Academy to places like Cal Arts and Ringling (which may or may not be relevant) is if it would be better for the Academy to require a portfolio for admittance? I know in the end, it comes down to the work that’s produced (and I’ve seen some amazing work from the Academy in recent years), but could something like this help students make sure they’re at a certain fundamental level upon entering the school? Could it help the Academy structure a better program? Maybe it’s a basic art portfolio or something as simple as an important essay/questionare? I don’t know, these are all just ideas but maybe that would allow a program to start students a bit earlier and get them farther along by the time they graduate. From my own personal experience there, I remember a lot of students (myself included) who hadn’t had that much exposure to traditional art and so many classes were taken just to get us familiar with things.

    I have to say I’m really in the camp that believes filmmaking and storytelling skills are as important as ever. It’s much easier for me to see this now that I’m working professionally (and find it incredibly challenging to find time to work on my own stuff). I actually went to a traditional film school first and worked in live action film before I got interested in animation. It was probably one of the best experiences of my life, but knowing what I know now, I wish I could have done more. The bar is so high now. I think the ones who do well are the ones with a true unique vision and understand how to tell a good story (as well as being good animators). I remember talking to Carlos Baena one time and he said every single animator at Pixar contributes something unique to the studio and that’s why they work there. That really stuck with me and continues to motivate me to keep on pushing myself. Not just so I might work at a big studio, but to have the opportunity to do my own work and experiment.

    Great topic to post Andrew…I really hope the Academy comes through. What you guys have been able to do over there has helped so many students.

    December 19, 2008 @ 6:10 pm
    

31. canadian student

    I must say I really appreciate your thoughts on this subject Dr. StephenG.
    For me the biggest problem with schooling as I am and have been experiencing it, is that I shelled out 26000 dollars, which im sure i’ll be lucky to make in one year of being a full time animator. Graduating into a large large vast crowd of people fighting for jobs in a market that is very unstable.(Pixar being the exception as I understand) Then being told by companies that they may sit thru 5 seconds of your demo reel if you can catch there eye right away.
    That being said has the market just become so overly saturated and the money sucking so much for animators that its a survival of the fittest game? It seems to me that all of the “top” animators with a few exceptions are teaching a vast multitude of people.
    And does it bother any of the teaching animators that people are paying so much money to get a 5 second shot at a career?
    I was talking to a super cool guy who used to work at pixar and he was saying how some great reels at times would just get tossed away by some of the “pr” people before qualified people could look at reels. Those reels in essence cost most of us 26000 dollars a year to produce to be given 5 seconds, and sometimes not even a look by a qualified person. I get that you guys get tons of them, so you know just how many people are unsuccessfully vying for these jobs, yet I see ads saying the animation industry is doing amazing! join our school.

    December 19, 2008 @ 11:53 pm
    

32. jeremiah

    hey Dr. Stephen!
    I am sorry to hear that the AAU classes have ended. I was thinking about coming back to school to finish my degree and take a pixar2 or 3 class anyway, i hope you are doing well, and if you are teaching, i would love to take another class from you!

    December 20, 2008 @ 1:47 am
    

33. Dr.StephenG

    Hello Canadian Student,
    “And does it bother any of the teaching animators that people are paying so much money to get a 5 second shot at a career…Those reels in essence cost most of us 26000 dollars a year to produce to be given 5 seconds, and sometimes not even a look by a qualified person.”

    Oh yes, this weights heavily on my soul. Trust me the thought of how much time, effort, and money each person puts into their reel does not escape me. This is the reason I taught, I wanted to do my best to make sure that if people were going to pay that much money, they could at least have the benefit I had. Which was to learn from someone who had successfully animated professionally for a living. Fortunately access to these professionals has become easier now more than ever before.

    December 20, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
    

34. Jean-Denis Haas

    It is quite brutal, yes. I remember starting at the AAC (before it was the AAU ) and in one of the first classes the teacher was talking about how people got hired based on their bouncing balls. Times sure have changed.
    As much as I’m in favor of giving everybody a chance to learn animation, maybe the AAU should introduce a portfolio review prior to acceptance? But then how are people supposed get started, learning on their own?

    December 20, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
    

35. random

    Jean-Denis Haas -
    The AAU is all about making money. The reason why they don’t have a portfolio review is to collect as much money as they can from naive kids. The drop out rate for new students is about 50%. They also make mad money from their real estate housing income. They take a one bedroom apartment and put bunk beds in the living room. Each person in the living room pays 1000 a month for rent, while the person in the single bedroom pays 1500. So they charge 3500 a month for an apartment that would cost about 1300.

    Just to recap, AAU does not care about teaching students. There are a few amazing teachers that do however (jason ballard, chuck pyle, john dobson, joko budiono…) but the majority do not meet the grade.

    December 20, 2008 @ 3:01 pm
    

36. Anim student #89343

    Honestly, I don’t know what suggestion to really give except, I think AAU also need to expand their lab. I really hate it when I have paid two times the lab fees (which I could have used it to buy a brand new computer even) and having to wait in queue for a computer to use. I always end up preferring to stay at home to work since I would work a lot faster and more consistently. That other day we were even asked to ‘voluntarily give up’ our computer since there was 20 people in queue waiting for a long time already for a computer. And if we don’t they would have to chase people off. I have no complains on the computer’s spec, it’s really awesome and all, but the lab fees are ridiculous. Paying once a semester is okay, but twice is going too far. When nobody ever cares about lab time anyway.

    I have read that the students at Gobelins are required to check into the school by 9am and work until 6pm, I think that maybe one of the factors they are so close knitted and working out great stuff together. Then again, this is something that our own Uni’s student have to work it out ourselves, discipline and all. But it’s just a thought of maybe why they are doing so well there.

    I personally felt that the University have always tried to draw the students back from doing what they want to do when it comes to their thesis, and doubting what we can achieve it or whatever. When it should be the opposite, they should be pushing the students FORWARD, not backward. The only person I see pushing us a lot is Tom. I understand a lot of students cannot achieve a high expectation, but then again that’s what education should be about.

    December 20, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
    

37. Tyler

    In regards to Canadian Student’s comment about students only getting 5 seconds to impress…

    I read somewhere the other day about these big shots only giving demo reels 5 seconds because “we are far too busy to spare any time watching demo reels or thesis films”.
    Give me a break. There is no way in hell you are so busy that you can’t spend a minute or two reviewing what took a student, like you said, thousands of hours and dollars to create.

    I mean, if in the first 10 seconds they can tell that the student is just plain bad, sure, skip it. But really, it’s ridiculous to paint this picture that they can’t possibly spare a few precious seconds of their day.

    December 20, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
    

38. Jonathan

    I’m so glad this topic has generated a lot of discussion and I hope people continue posting. As a former student at AAU, I agree with so much of what has been said here. I think what “random” (reveal yourself!) said regarding the money making aspect of AAU is very true, but I think there is another component to the failure of the curriculum. It has to do with the field of animation itself.

    Animation, of all the other fields of CG, is the most traditionally founded, and the least technically oriented. Unlike texturing, modelling, rendering, and rigging, animation is a topic that stretches far back in history, with principles and fundamentals that have been universally applied to all mediums. The problem is that AAU, and most art schools, has taken the definition of “animation” and heavily reduced it to include all the other fields of a cg production. It is treated much more like a typical stage, with usual typical technical hurdles, rather than a specific area of film making that needs to be treated as an artform.

    When you have a school as gigantic as AAU, with so many different fields, programs, and majors, it really is inevitable that some areas will not get the attention they need. The character animation program is one of them, and it was this realization that caused me to leave. Its unfortunate that the Pixar classes are gone, but it doesn’t surprise me at all. Maybe it will be a sign that the school needs to take a good long look at the operation they’re running, and start to actually address the complaints of students. By the way, when exactly were the Pixar classes haulted, was it this semester or last? Just wondering.

    December 20, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
    

39. canadian student

    I must comment that I was completely blown away by what i’ve just seen. I just checked out Dr.Stephens link and saw he’s offerring to teach for free, granted its only one student, but vicariously many can be taught thru this one student based on what he was saying on his site. I wish you the best of luck with this Dr. Stephen and hope it can be carried out. And also hope I can somehow be a participant in this endeavor.
    I really admire sites like 11secondclub that has been sponsored by animation mentor where students can submit stuff and sometimes other students offer there advice on the subject and I think its absolutely amazing. I really think something like what Dr.Stephen is doing could truly take this learning method to another level, and hopefully attract more students helping other students learn. That being said has any group of students online ever attempted to compile work together and attempt something a little more then mere exercises and try some joint dialogue or story scenes?
    I think if some groups of ppl had ways of communicating online with other willing people it would be really interesting to see what people could do working together on a project strictly over the net.

    December 20, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
    

40. Dr.StephenG

    Regarding the comment about these big shots not having the time to review students reels.

    It is a shame that the reel can be ejected after 5 seconds or so, I’ve sat in many reel reviews and I have to say we watched them all and 98% of them to the end. The problem is that when a studio like Pixar is getting on average a 1000 reels for an internship or a certain posted job, it’s hard to have the time to look at all of them. That tallies up to something like 50 hours of reel viewing. Now you take the fact that they have average 6-10 animators in the review watching this stuff, you can start to see how the studio doesn’t want their animators spending that much time away from doing their job of animating. I do think the studios that do care about the person they are hiring do spend the time to watch reels. Other studios maybe not, I don’t know.

    December 20, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
    

41. Former Academy Grad Student

    First of all, I have to say it’s amazing Stephen G that you’re offering to teach for free. If I wasn’t in the process of polishing up my thesis film, I would submit my name to the stack.

    Second, I just want to reiterate that any school is what you make of it. Get to know the department heads. Ask them for advice. Talk to other students including former students and see what they went though.

    Take control of your education! I saw so many students just following the flow of the school, never pushing to get what they want. And don’t do it for the money!

    December 20, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
    

42. alonso

    so back to the talk of short films…

    part of an animator’s skill (I think) is to be able to flesh out a back story to help with acting choices, lead the audiences eye around a scene to where you need it to go, act well changing beats and emotions to create a scene with good texture, infuse unique and personal observations into your shot to raise it above the storyboard (plus the shot), and be able to animate across shots.

    what are the skills you feel an animator gains through doing a short film?

    I think when hand drawn ruled, short films where easier because it was the same skills as animating, and it was all drawing so it was all useful. But learning to model, zbrush, texture, rig, and light, don’t directly contribute to your animation skills.

    December 21, 2008 @ 12:34 am
    

43. current student

    I agree with former academy grad student completely. By going to any school you are given an opportunity, don’t follow the curriculum exactly, don’t do it for the money. Art is a personal expression, strive for that expression and make something that you can be happy with. Art is about growing as a person and pushing your own limits, school is your opportunity to do something that you have always wanted to do, connect with people who have similar values and discover things that you never knew existed, or thought would even be possible. It is good to have amazing teachers who inspire you and teach you things they have learned, but don’t rely on outside sources all the time. Anything that you learn in school, at some point in history came from a persons observation or perspective on a certain thing. Be aware that you personally have the power to observe, learn and create as well, knowledge is always right in front of you, if you want to learn film study films, read about them. Study performance for animation, study people, study life. If you do this while you have teachers and fellow students to discuss these observations with and you have the opportunity to apply them, then there is no time to rely on pixar to give you something you already have. I’m not saying the school is benefitting by losing great teachers because it’s not, if a teacher can communicate to you in 3 months what it took them half of their life to figure out, then you just saved yourself 40 years. The world would be nowhere if we did not have people passing down knowledge so it could be expanded upon. But right now with the internet and digital media anything you want to learn is basically there to be learned for free, some of the most valuable stuff is given away. You go to school to change your surroundings, to observe, to meet people, to connect with teachers who have seen things you haven’t, you’re paying for an experience not a text book. So to the students, don’t let this incident discourage you, like the former grad student says, you get out what you put in and the school still has opportunities present, use your resources and don’t strive for somebody to give you a job, strive to create your own job.

    December 21, 2008 @ 3:54 am
    

44. theThief

    Guys, at the end of the day, it all comes down to what the company is looking for at the time they are hiring, is what gets you a job at THAT company . . . Most company seminars and talks tell me (inc pixar and dreamworks and framestore) is that they tend to hire students and new folk LAST or almost last. I.e. its gonna be a bigger risk to take somebody they’ve never met before than somebody who was recommended by an employee etc.
    Like what is already been discussed before studios are looking for variety of different things. But as far education goes, students really need to figure out why they’ve decided to pursue animation as a career… to make films? Or to work for a big/small company/corporation?

    I’m unsure if anyone has noticed about what is happening to the UK animation industry, or other parts of Europe…? There seems to be spark again (a small unnoticed growth) within the industry, studios like Framestore and Studio Aka (that Stephen pointed out) have begun to grow. And the reason for that is that they are making shorts. Shorts that catch interest of the media, soap companies, and other corporations that want to continue to fund animation as a form of advertisement, sell dvds and/or to fund the making of more short films. (what you think dick Williams is doing with his dvds…?)

    You remember this guy? Listen to him. He knows what he’s talking about….:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WApcUBcVMos

    Or this guy:

    http://monotremedreams.blogspot.com/2008/11/richard-williams-lecture.html

    The thing I was talking about in Europe, that’s the way the education system in animation has worked over here for the past 20 years. Students learn about the basic processes, learn about film-making and in their final year, make a film. THEN they leave deciding whether or not to work for a large studio, small studio, freelance, or even create their own studio. If they’re extremely lucky, someone will give them a job before they even leave which DOES happen (those guys are bastards!) I dunno about the US but here, we only do tests for practice before we progress onto short film making.

    Interestingly, a couple of years ago, a few of us here in the UK who were getting sick and tired of going from studio to studio, being runners and either being told “There is no work here for you” or “This is a one man job” etc etc. We didn’t even have the big studios that the people in the US have. Or Hollywood..
    So some of us started making our own films. They began shit but eventually started to get somewhere.
    How do you think these big companies began their studios?
    What about Lasseter? Or Williams? Or Goldberg?

    Anyway, there is a variety of ways to make a living off of this thing called animation. You will most likely begin at the bottom or near the bottom to get your feet dirty, but if you get better, get more personal, be more professional; you WILL eventually get to where you want to be. And if you’re lucky you will get there right away.

    We have the technology, we have the industry, we have the people. Its not purely about talent, its about sheer determination and passion, that makes us great film-makers.

    Hope that helps anyone out there

    Hope to hear more from Spline Doctors soon!

    Ps. I feel for all you international students. They have made it extremely difficult for you guys. The only reason I wanted to go to the US was because I felt that there wasn’t any studios or good enough studios to allow me to create acting/performance animation. However, that’s beginning to change. Don’t give up.

    December 21, 2008 @ 4:32 am
    

45. theThief

    Sorry for my intrusive rant! But I feel that students seem the repeat the same rant over each year about the industry before they have even entered it.

    I remember my first running job, I worked at a supposed big animation studio in London with a long list of directors with all their personal films on their website. I worked there for 2 months. I always found it interesting that the director who was supposed to be a director of hand-drawn animation couldn’t even draw well. And that he was consistently referring to the survival kit whilst he was animating a stick man walk cycle. Me, fresh from school, who could draw (no modesty) out of a paper bag quicker than he could was still getting the coffee for him.
    That’s another thing about the industry is that there around 50,000 artists graduating out of the UK alone and yet only maybe a hundred jobs available each year. Only the cream of the crop will get those jobs. So if you want something to worry about, worry about being good and not the competition. YOU should be the competition. Here’s an interesting article:

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=372592

    sorry! Just trying to help! Take care

    December 21, 2008 @ 5:02 am
    

46. Jon

    I seem to remember a similar experience on our animation course. Where our course leader (a highly skilled draughtsman, great animator and an amazing teacher) had retired around the middle of our degree. We ended being subjected to mediocre teachers who were although, good at what they do, they weren’t good at teaching it. The course has suffered dramatically. And has never been the same since. But I like what somebody said before, “Nobody can teach the passion for the student. The passion for the medium is what drives the student”. Or something..

    Jon

    December 21, 2008 @ 9:31 am
    

47. Hammy

    Everyone pretty much gave great advice around and I agree with them. Thanks for all the enlightening inputs.

    Schools everywhere is what you put into them, and what you get out of it. And anything the school can give us is actually an ‘extra’ help, I suppose with so much money being paid, we always expect more ‘extras’ from the school, and if they don’t live it up to how much they are charging, most students wouldn’t be happy still and will continue these rants. I personally felt the students do have the right to rant after how much they are paying, and the fact some ranted because they do care. Instead of ignoring what’s the problems on those we paid to ‘help us’, and letting them get away with the money and run schools with so little effort. Though at the end I think Universities are only a luxury thing to have.

    December 21, 2008 @ 11:59 am
    

48. Grad student (AAU)

    Although, i don’t like the decision of Pixar leaving AAU. I can’t really argue the case well. One of the main reasons I came to AAU was to be taught under some of the best, Pixar animators. From what you are saying, about students not being driven is pretty true from what I have seen from some other students in the class room. However. I would highly advise taking a peek at the 2d animation grad lab. The students there are some of the most passionate animators and potential film makers I have ever encountered. These are students that have the drive to make it big with an animation career. They are students that even once the assignment is “done” they will strive to make it better. They are students that even though the semester has ended, they want more and will work constantly to improve their abilities. And these are mostly just 1st semester/2nd semester grad students that hoped to one day be able to take the Pixar classes here at AAU.

    I understand that you are doing this for the better of the students, but taking away a vital inspirational part of their education may not be the correct way to go. I know AAU has it’s downsides and hopefully they will correct it, but I feel that there should be part on you as teachers of these classes to help fix it.

    I can’t imagine how stressful teaching is and I understand that you guys would get burnt out, especially teaching things that students should already know if they were to be taking the Pixar classes. But it is my understanding that to get into the Pixar classes, one needs to submit a demo reel of their animation. Is it the Pixar animators that review the reels? Or is a third party member reviewing?

    If it’s the latter of the two, then maybe having the Pixar teachers reviewing them would help lower the potential for having students that don’t know their stuff come in. Another idea could be, if a student doesn’t know a basic principle or anything that they should have known prior to being in the class, that student would have to learn that on their own time or face falling behind, since that is not what the Pixar classes are meant to be.

    With the above said, you guys at Spline Doctors are amazing for even just offering classes like this at a school. With you guys working along with teaching the Pixar classes is incredible. And I hope that AAU does its part and fixes what needs to be fixed, because these classes that you guys offer here is an AMAZING opportunity for us students.

    Cheers!

    December 21, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
    

49. Marcus Scott

    “I think when hand drawn ruled, short films where easier because it was the same skills as animating, and it was all drawing so it was all useful. But learning to model, zbrush, texture, rig, and light, don’t directly contribute to your animation skills.”

    Of course they do. It makes you think about what you’re doing, and eventually respect the collaborative nature of film making a great deal.

    And don’t forget learning great design, composition, solid drawing and perspective skills, timing, physics, math, editing, sound creation & mixing, post production, and shlepping and marketing. ALL of these contribute to the thought process of animation. EVERY BIT OF IT.

    The better you know how films are made, the more you’ll know how what you do fits in.

    December 21, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
    

50. alonso

    I’m not convinced Marcus. While it would be great for everyone to know everything, in the context of the short amount of time people can afford to go to school I think it is impractical to ask them to try to learn it all there.

    If you are going to be the best animator you can be, so that you can be at a professional competitive level upon graduation, then I think you’re time in school is better spent practicing animation then it is practicing modeling, rigging, texturing etc, because all of those are unique art forms that also take years of practice for mastery. If you spend 1/3 of a year to learn to model, 1/3 to learn to rig, and 1/3 to animate, you’ll be 1/3rd as good in each of those fields as the people who spent the entire year doing the one thing, so you won’t get the modeling rigging or animating job because you aren’t good enough. It’s good to talk with your fellow students who are following those disciplines to understand what the challenges of their fields are, but you don’t necessarily need to experience those challenges first hand.

    I’d rather learn to animate well in school, then get an animation job and learn film making on my own time, then learn to do everything in school get an unrelated crap job and try and learn to animate well on my own time. (I’ve done both ways, and let me tell you, it takes a herculean effort to continue to grind away at the computer every night after being beat from some random job for years)

    I differentiated between hand drawn and CG short films because I can see how a hand drawn film also works your animating muscles. The other areas needed for a CG film only vaguely improve your animating muscles, you can just as easily make a claim for a fine arts background, or a psychology degree (sure nice to have, but again, the thought of getting people through school in a reasonable amount of time and debt)

    You do see jobs for jack of all trades in video games, sometimes called “character artists”, usually from smaller shops where the quality in each aspect can be okay, but isn’t as top notch as the big shops where they want specialization: a “modeler” or an “animator”. And me, I want to Animate, I do those other things because I need to but I live for the animating!

    To me an animator should be able to direct the audience’s eye (using perspective, composition, movement, contrast, all that stuff), create unique believable characters that speak to us of our own lives, and imbue entertaining and empathetic emotional arcs across a scene. So for those who think animation students should do short films, what additional skills do you feel the students learn from the short that make time spent building non animation skills (like modeling and texturing) more valueable then time spent practicing this difficult craft? It seems to me that if you get hired at a film studio as an animator, they are going to want you to take the shot, hit the beats on the storyboard, Plus it, and move on to the next shot, they’re not hiring you to tell them how to improve their marketing plan, or to critique the shading of the models.

    December 21, 2008 @ 11:50 pm
    

51. alonso

    Ouch, sorry, wall of text. didn’t realize I blab so much

    December 22, 2008 @ 12:00 am
    

52. Pete

    “If you are going to be the best animator you can be, so that you can be at a professional competitive level upon graduation, then I think you’re time in school is better spent practicing animation then it is practicing modeling, rigging, texturing etc, because all of those are unique art forms that also take years of practice for mastery”

    Alonso, I think you are missing the whole point of education. By understanding and knowing about different areas within an animation and film making it broadens your knowledge on how the whole process works, and gives you an appreciation for it. By only focusing on one area you are effectively closing your mind to the bigger picture.
    Your idea on that you become a lesser animator because of it is nonsense. I was told when producing an animation reel, that all they really look for is potential within the student, and once you get a job as an animator, that’s when you really learn how to animate. The amount I learned as a student compared to working is vastly different. Whenever you are working your level of learning increases at a rate many times that of a student.
    Therefore learning how to model, rig, texture, light, etc is very very much worth doing, even if you never do them in your final job.

    December 22, 2008 @ 7:25 am
    

53. jim

    I mostly agree with your statement, Alonso, that “the other areas needed for a CG film only vaguely improve your animating muscles”, because it’s true. Spending a lot of time on modeling, texturing, and lighting means you have less time to animate and churn out those valuable demo reel shots. I comprehend the value of understanding the many areas of CG production, and myself prefer to be as generalized as possible while still focusing on animation (rigging knowledge comes in extremely handy and I love lighting shots).

    But the one thing you’re missing in your argument is the most important part of making a short film… the story and characters. Regardless of whether a film is hand-drawn or CG, some things are the same: writing the story, creating the characters’ personalities and foibles, and figuring out how to tell the story with efficiency and clarity.

    And those filmmaking tasks are the reason people should be making short films, because getting better at them *will* make people stronger animators. That’s why so many people here are advocating short films.. not because knowing how to place spotlights will help you get an animation job, but because knowing how to tell a story is really important… and you cannot get that from animating 10-second dialogue clips.

    December 22, 2008 @ 11:59 am
    

54. Bobby P

    Well said Jim!

    If it’s widely accepted that animation’s primary role in a film is to serve the story, then the benefit of working on a short film of your own becomes obvious.

    December 22, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
    

55. canadian student

    I must say its a rare time I agree with everyone here.
    In school I do believe its best to learn one thing well. If you need work out of school in the area you chose to learn, then don’t waste your time, you need a job. If not then spend all the time in the world learning as much as you can, as it can only make you more employable. However, I think that making a film is a group effort, and maybe one time in your life it won’t be. I think the best skill that you can learn at school, is people skills. Meet people who are passionate about things other than animation. Work with them collaborate with them, get used to group environments. This is the beauty of school. Above me I have modellers, digital photographers, actors, below me I have visual effects people, lighters, sadly noones who’s specialty is rigging though Sadly most people above and below are so in there own bubble they don’t want to work with other people, and it makes me want to cry. I get that people have school assignments and all, but I do wish ppl who are in school would leave there bubbles and learn how to collaborate with people. That’s where the magic of this industry is.

    December 22, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
    

56. AM Student

    Ultimately what you want to keep in mind is that a studio hires you because they want you to help make their film entertaining. Your job as an animator is to entertain. Smooth arcs and believable weight are important (especially when they’re absent), but no one goes out to see a film for those reasons. Polished animation is only another tool to tell a story with. Your job as an animator is to help tell a story. The better you understand how to tell a good story, the better and more valuable your animation becomes to a film and to that company.

    So while making your own student films can be tedious and a hassle (ESPECIALLY in 3d if you don’t have a rig), ultimately a student can only benefit by learning the tools of film and telling a story visually. That said, it’s not entirely necessary to know all the ins and outs of modeling, rigging and lighting to make a good short film in 3d. In fact, one of the great things about making films is learning to deal with your own limitations and finding creative ways to work around them. You can make a very good short film with very little technical hassle if you know the basics of how to model, light, and rig it. The challenge is to keep things as simple as possible so that one person can feasibly complete all groundwork and still have time to make the animation outstanding and compelling. Think of all the 2D films you’ve seen with just a flour sack and a background!

    The point is that even if you won’t have creative control at a studio, you can still add something entertaining to the project as a whole if you understand how to tell a story well. It helps your acting choices, and it helps you raise yourself from being just an animator to being a collaborator, which is what your employer is really after in the long run.

    December 22, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
    

57. Student

    Well said AM student. I remember Ed Catmull saying in a certain splinecast, “in order to get really good at something, you need to spend a lot of time doing it”.

    I guess in order to do all the rigging, modelling lighting and animating, you need to spend a lot of time doing all.

    December 22, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
    

58. AAU online

    Well i’m an aau online student and if you guys think the course on campus is lacking, then you should see the online course. i started my animation journey at ITT and let me say it was not the best move i’ve made so far. i read up on aau and i decided i’d give it a shot. well after a full year i felt i wasnt learning how to animate. yea we got to “move some stuff around” but we werent learning how to animate. so i stopped going for 18 months while i attended animation mentor. once i started there i realized just how little i had actually learned! got my but kicked by a bouncing ball! well needless to say after i got somewhat of a grasp on the basics i actually started learning how to animate (and still learning). this isnt a post to big up Am, its a post to say the aau online animation course is in dire need of an overhaul. i think the first thing they need is a dedicated online instructor, having the instructor teach on campus and online is a very daunting task for any teacher. next they need some type of real time interaction between students/students, and students/teacher. sometimes we get an audio critique but thats about as close as it comes to “interaction” between the instructor and student. i must say im very disappointed that the pixar classes have been canceled. i was willing to move to SF just to take the pixar classes (in the “OMG! i cant belive it” chance that i got in.) and not for a job at pixar, but for a chance to learn from some of the top animators in the business today. as far as the comment about acting shots to get hired vs. short films, i agree its a product of the industry. even AM is making the short film optional. it used to be required for the course and i thoroughly enjoyed it. from start up to final animation it was an awesome 6 month project. (still need to finish it up). this is an excellent post and i look forward to more in the future.

    December 23, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
    

59. Pete

    I have a question for any of the spline doctors (past or present). Some of us, in a portfolio, have mainly only tests and pantomimes in our reels because thats mainly what our degrees were geared towards. So the short film option is out the window for us (at least until we graduate).

    How would you determine, which one of us would be different? i.e. how would you tell which one of us could be potential employees? I drawing included in our portfolios? Can it be considered? We can help separate the good people from the amazing people, apart from being ‘original’..

    December 24, 2008 @ 6:54 am
    

60. anim student

    I think regardless of Degree or Masters, students should have hands on experience on a short film production at the very least. It could have been a collaboration project or a solo one, but I believe students can complete a short film if they put their effort into it even in one semester’s time. The overall work don’t have to be fantastic, but the experience of going through the process of film making is what really matters.

    As far as getting a job goes, Haas nailed that down already. But being a film maker is up to the students/ animators themselves to push beyond that. One of the best way of learning to be a film maker would probably be involved in the process of film making, and most of the times being in a company.

    December 25, 2008 @ 6:00 pm
    

61. Debbie

    Well Hello Andrew and Spline Doctors, this is the creator of the very first Hogan model and rig from 2000; the Jersey girl who sat in on all the classes… From time to time I read the Spline Dr.s blog, as a former student of mine brought it to my attention along with Hogan’s very own web site.
    I must say I am saddened by the news there are no more Pixar classes at the Academy of Art College to sit in on However, I must compliment you all on the lifespan and commitment to the program made by everyone. Don’t feel bad kids, the school I went to, way back before Y2k, had the best SGI hardware and animation software but teachers who took manuals home and said “figure it out” all the time. That didn’t stop me as I moved 3,000 miles from home to follow my dreams without knowing if anything would come of it at all. By the good graces of Heaven and some very nice people the World’s best animator said to me “I’ll help you, first make a ball bounce up and down in the Y-axis, I’ll critique it for you” Then the Red Sea parted and I started a journey of learning that still hasn’t stopped. It’s about the journey, not the stops along the way. Even Richard Williams said in his splinecast that things didn’t come together with his own work until he was in his 40’s, twenty years after he started working. There are many ways to learn animation, film making and art, even for free. But it’s up to you to do something with what you already know. The next person, step and opportunity are always coming. Look forward!
    That being said, Andrew I took very detailed notes from the classes I sat in on and put them in book form. I sent it to you but I don’t know if you ever got it. I hope you did, as it might give you some ideas. Dudes, you should write the sequel to The Illusion of Life! Yes, it still exists but there are new stories to tell and the technology to grasp. Even Remy jumped out of a window risking his life to save the one book that connected him to this wonderful world of craft; the teaching tool that cost under $100 and never has a bad day and lasts longer than it’s writers.
    There are some former AAU Pixar instructors who have similar paths as Frank and Ollie who could pen the sequel. Start with John Lasseter’s Siggraph paper from 1987, David Price’s book The Pixar Touch, Sharon Callahan’s lectures etc. Create some Folk lore. All you Spline Drs go have lunch once a week with a tape recorder and create a manuscript using http://www.speak-write.com. Maybe you guys could be Pixar’s 10 year club or something.
    Don’t wait until you are old and gray to see this could be the best teaching tool you guys leave behind.
    I wish you all luck and must be on my merry way to let the dog out and admire the moon out here in Mayberry North Carolina
    Debbie Young

    December 27, 2008 @ 8:12 pm
    

62. guest

    I think its time for a lawsuit, “Students file class-action lawsuit against California Culinary Academy”. Read this article, it sure looks like what the AAU has been up to.

    http://www.sfweekly.com/2007-10-10/news/students-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-california-culinary-academy/

    December 28, 2008 @ 3:20 pm
    

63. John

    What a great idea Debbie!
    I’d buy that. Its about time. THe illusion is disneys book why not a pixar one (spline doctors preferably).

    December 29, 2008 @ 3:21 am
    

64. Meredith

    Wow, the comments are so long that I couldn’t read all of them. I am but a humble animator wanna-be, but my weak public college art education didn’t prepare me to do much of anything either fulfilling or well paying.

    On to my point: Pixar has such a huge name at the moment, they are well-positioned to push their own agenda at the undergraduate level. Aside from starting their own school, they could potentially partner with a school to create an animation department, where they could write their own curriculum and graduation requirements. Think of it…the “Pixar School of Animation at the University of…(insert name here).” I can’t imagine a school scoffing at that.

    As for the animation students clamoring to work for some benevolent corporation with benefits, none of them will last forever. Create your own way, make your own films, find your own voice and your audience will come…

    December 29, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
    

65. Brett Davis

    First off, I agree with the original post. I found it incredibly insightful, and for one am kind of glad the pixar classes are gone from the program (even though I’ve graduated). I haven’t read all of the other posts though, just a few here and there.

    Andrew is right in the thinking that only the creme of the crop make it into the pixar classes, because the school and some of the instructors even pushed that idea, and it bred the idea that if you didn’t get into that class, you somehow didn’t have the talent to work in the animation industry, and because I had some instructors even tell me I should have been in the class, and didn’t get in and even watched one of my friends get into the class, that thinking even snaked its way into my head, and I’ve spent the past year in a kind of a burnt out slump because I didn’t think I was good enough.

    But let me make it clear that I do not blame the school or the instructors for my slump. There have been numerous other factors for my slump that all played a part, it was just that I lost my drive and chose not to animate when I should have been animating. But that aside, I think the school did wrong in puffing up the pixar classes that it did create such attitudes, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s the sole cause of the attitudes of students.

    I totally agree that the AAU needs to make some necessary changes, coming up with a standardized cirriculum and pushing the students to be more creative as opposed to working simply on just shots, however, I do agree with JD Haas that those are important as well, because with the time constraints of classes and what an undertaking a short film could be.

    But at the same time, I also think your schooling is largely what you make of it. I will say I had a great learning expierence, it wasn’t without it’s flaws (the biggest being that too many of my instructors were cheerleaders and didn’t truly critique the work), I didn’t learn until I had a year of school left, that it was better to animate arms in FK. But at the same time, I learned alot because I asked questions, I wanted to make sure that I got as much information about how my animation could be better. It was also a great way to get to know the instructors and that is also something I didn’t see a lot of students do. In fact I remember a lot of students just complaining about the schooling and not really doing anything about it, their thinking was that an A was owed them for showing up. And that bothered me. I’d ask them if they’d talked to the instructors and/or their advisors and most that I’d talked to would say “No.”

    I learned a great deal from the majority of my instructors, especailly the ones that cared, JD Haas, Shaun Featherstone, Jason Patnode, and my Portfolio class instructor who worked at ILM whose name I can’t remember off hand. They cared about the work we did and were honest. Not enough teachers were honest with their students with their shots and especially some of those that really had no business being animators. You don’t tear people down but too many were given, what I think was too much of a false hope with all the cheerleading.

    Thanks for the article.

    December 31, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
    

66. jclyons

    I had the pleasure/challenge of teaching animation at AAU for a few evening classes. I would like to give my advice on the whole “shot animator” vs. “filmmaker” topic.

    First, I’m a graduate of New York University, where I learned filmmaking, so it’s obvious which road I took at the start. And I certainly understand the very serious need to work and pay the bills.

    I have been in the business for quite a few years, and I learned a long time ago what it’s like to get and lose jobs. When you get a good job you feel awesome. You lose it and you feel terrible. I decided to stop putting my self worth in the hands of a company. Since then I have ALWAYS had personal projects going. Even as a parent with a full time job, I still make the time to inch something along. Two years ago I had a short in the Siggraph Animation Theater, and my next short is well underway. It makes me feel like an actual artist. I take the work to the audience, not some nameless portfolio reviewer.

    By the way, would one of you guys tell Guilherme Jacinto to finish that short of his.

    January 5, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
    

67. xb5000

    It’s kinda of a shame that the AAU’s animation program is in such a mess. I went there to learn from the best teachers I could, and I finished up all my classwork at the end of 2006. For the past two years I have been struggling to complete a competitive reel, and a lot of my learning now is done on my own through these various (free) animation blogs, and I’m still well over 150K in school debt because I also have another Bachelor’s degree that I never got into (programming). Every single day I tweak and tweak as I strive to get close to a reel which will get me a job, which I should have had when graduating. I can say I’m pretty upset about the whole situation. AAU has “graduates” that can in no way get a job with their current skill set, at least in the Animation and VFX department.

    The school claims an 80% placement rate which I’m not necessarily questioning, but they really do not emphasize the fundamentals of the art enough. To learn character animation they need EVERY STUDENT to be able to go through a pixar-like class. That’s truly how the this is taught. Right now AM is looking cheaper and a better prospect for an actual job every day. I kinda of wish I cold afford to go there now, but it’s out of the question financially. Hopefully by the end of this year I’ll have a decent reel to show for all my work and expense following this dream. I wish I could have taken a class with all the great teachers on this blog it would have helped me a ton

    January 5, 2009 @ 5:22 pm
    

68. Chris Thompson

    I had no idea until just now that Pixar actually had classes. I find it funny how you mention that you wish the program also taught the students how to create their own films though. Reason being is that I’m currently working on a film at Sheridan College and I’m wishing that I had more time to concentrate more on 3d / 2d animation so even once I’ve graduated next year I’m highly considering taking animation mentor.

    January 7, 2009 @ 11:23 am
    

69. Hammy

    Actually, I do have to say sometimes I think about it, AAU is not THAT bad or in such a great mess since I have been in a much messier animation program before. At the moment rather than messy I think AAU’s animation program is more of idling in terms of improving or doing anything real new… While I am let down at some things with AAU, but most of it are still a really enjoyable experience for me.

    Right now, it does seems to me the University is highly reliant on the Norman rig though (which was Pixar’s class idea, if I’m not mistaken), I have mixed feelings about this, but at the end of the day I think if the University cold provide some more new rigs, it might show they are at least taking some initiative to do some little things about their animation program? I have been hearing this suggestion going on for sometime but nothing has been done so far. I personally prefer the idea of students making their own rigs… But I have seen real nicely modified Norman rigs still so it’s not entirely that bad. Just, well, you know, original rigs would sometimes stand out more in demoreels.

    Let’s hope when the semester starts, the University has some new things in for the students.

    Thanks for the Pixar instructors that once step foot into AAU, I do think AAU animation course do owe a lot to them for what the students have today.

    January 8, 2009 @ 8:38 am
    

70. Chronicles of a Character Animator » Blog Archive » AAU Norman Rig now free!

    [...] ‘Monotreme Dreams‘ blog: For those not paying attention. Pixar animator’s are no longer teaching at AAU in San Francisco because of too much beaucracy. But [...]

    January 16, 2009 @ 8:38 am
    

71. wise old man

    there’s artists. Then there’s the people who wish they could do art.

    January 24, 2009 @ 3:25 am
    

72. curious young man

    What makes someone an artist?

    January 25, 2009 @ 2:25 am
    

73. wise old man

    an open mind.

    January 26, 2009 @ 1:21 am
    

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