Comments on: Cool behind the scenes Avatar clip

By: Jeffrey Baker

Jeffrey Baker — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:42:50 +0000

I think a lot of you are missing the point, It’s not motion editors vs animators or animators not getting enough love. Avatar was a TEAM effort at WETA, during the project we went from 500 people to 800 over a three year period. On Avatar there were roughly 50+ animators and for mo-cap 50+ people. (I was part of the motion edit team which are duties were to edit the body/facial/hands) also mixed in these numbers are support staff, coordinators, and producers. We have a dedicated department that deals with just face, yes in certain shots the animators did work on the face bust the vast majority of the clean-up was done by the mo-cap department. With Andy Jones (Animation Director) reviewing the work in dailies.

The animators had plenty of work to do on the creatures and also on animating the Navi. Also don’t forget all the wonderful people in the shots, composting, lighting, and creature department that makes our work look so good! WETA was able to build upon the technology used for Gollum, King Kong, and use that expertise on Avatar and now Tin Tin (Steven Spielberg and Peter Jackson) The need for great animators will still be around for a long, long time. Mo-cap is just another tool to help sell the world that future directors come up with.

my 2 cents,

Jeffrey

By: Oscars, Syrus Sister and Animation’s new war. « Cartoon Electro

Oscars, Syrus Sister and Animation’s new war. « Cartoon Electro — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:41:37 +0000

[...] technique. Within the industry, most already recognize the film as heavily animated, from top feature film animators who wonder why Avatar’s animators are receiving so little credit for their work on the film to [...]

By: Mooj

Mooj — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:46:54 +0000

I think something that I have found quite interesting about this topic, is that you always see Cameron talk about “performance” capture… NOT “motion” capture. This by definition suggests that it is not the exact motion that is captured on stage that is seen in the film, but the actors performances, and their acting choice that we see transferred. Whether that be through meticulous rotoscoping, tracking and keyframing, or through pure marker data, the end result is the “performance” capture. People in the industry understand how much additional work goes into these animations, but the difference here is that it is no lie to say the performance is completely actor driven, as all the emotional decisions have been taken out of the hands of the animators and given exclusively to Zoe Saldana et al. In the interest of not overloading “jo public’s” brains with the complexities of an entire production pipeline in all its detail, I think it is completely reasonable to just say “the actors drove the performances”. Again, as animators we know what lay beneath that, we give ultimate respect to those who worked on it, and maybe we should be happy that it’s our little secret?

By: Elliot

Elliot — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:14:14 +0000

I believe somebody already posted this a couple weeks ago, but here is a video of Producer Jon Landau directly acknowledging the role and contributions of animators to the facial performances. He frames it as a collaboration between animators and the actors, which seems appropriate and respectful to all involved.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/12/17/interview-with-avatar-producer-jon-landau/

By: Dan Jones

Dan Jones — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:24:02 +0000

I think they are trying to diminish (or completely conceal) the role of the animators for a number of reasons:

1. They are trying to push the Best Actress nom for Zoe Saldana. I’ve seen “for your consideration” ads for her floating around, showing that frame where she is crying next to a frame from the final movie. We all know that Gollum’s performance was a big departure from Andy Serkis’ motion capture, therefore no Best Actor nomination.

2. I don’t know if this is true, but I heard that investors put so much money into the movie because, even if it were a box office flop, they would still be able to market their developments in 3d and mo(performance)cap to other filmmakers.

3. No matter how great animated movies are, there is still a stigma among audiences. For example, when I talk to my friends about Pixar movies, I always hear thing like “I loved it, even though it was an animated movie” or “It’s crazy how I’m getting emotional over a computer’s performance.”

By: Snyderman

Snyderman — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:18:54 +0000

I was fortunate enough to catch a 3D screening of Avatar followed by a Q&A by Cameron. He spoke at length on a variety of topics raised by audience members and when asked about the animators’ work he was quick to praise their talents and effort, saying he believed he had hired the best in the business. He explained that when it came to the Navi characters he gave the animators specific instructions to retain and/or match his actors’ performances precisely, based on the mocap data and the HD reference footage of their faces. Basically, he admitted he kept the animators on a short leash when it came to his actors’ performances while making the point that the film would not have looked as good as it did without the animators’ skills. He also added that he let them go hog-wild on the creatures and machines and loved the results.

By: rob

rob — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:07:15 +0000

Keith- “I don’t think that it’s too much of a stretch to say that most people don’t get into animation for the fame of it.”

This has nothing to do with fame and everything to do with at least showing some respect. Respect for the efforts of people who are working 80 + hrs/wk, and never seeing their families, so that Cameron and the film execs can roll in their piles of money.

-”Then again, you don’t see him giving shout-out’s to the lighting or modeling or concept art teams either.”

He and his producers also don’t go out of their way to specifically diminish their efforts on this film, like he does to the animators.

By: Andrew Leeke

Andrew Leeke — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:11:31 +0000

i read in 3D World a few months back that the ratio is about 80% mocap, 20% animation for the Na’vi characters. As for everything else, 100% animation! VFX animation never gets attention, before Avatar the only time anyone even mentioned actual performance of cg characters in the general media is when Andy Serkis is doing the mocap.

Camerons little quote “this is not an animated film” is such a shame. as if animated films are dirty. But unless Camerons been breeding 6 legged panthers, then its animated, and he should be proud of that.

the simple truth is, the general public don’t really care. they like to think the big famous people did all the work. that’s why you guys at pixar are so unique! your dvds are never full of interviews with voice actors and nothing else.

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:06:30 +0000

I commend James Cameron on making an amazing and beautiful film. He really did spend a lot of time on it. The problem I have is that in the interviews he blatantly steers the audience away from any idea of animation being done by anyone else than the actors. They did a good job. He could have easily said that the film was a group effort by all parties. I wouldn’t even have minded if he had only punted the motion capture, but to me he seemed to intentionally put down the animators and claim the software does everything. I’m not asking for a fireworks show but I feel the public doesn’t have enough knowledge of the industry. I’m just starting as an animator in South Africa and I don’t know about you guys but I constantly meet people who think animators have it easy. We work damn hard and while I don’t think we should have fanfare I think that people need to be made aware of what everyone on a production does. Not just computers or actors but everyone from concept,props,camera crew to animators,editors,composers and everyone in-between. They’re fooling the public with this. So great film, bad behind the scenes.

By: Keith

Keith — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 05:53:45 +0000

Not that I’m one for ignoring the work of animators, but I happen to enjoy not having to worry about the paparazzi knocking down my door when i go out to get groceries. I’m an animator because I love the work and because I get to make art for a living. I don’t think that it’s too much of a stretch to say that most people don’t get into animation for the fame of it. But that said, it is still sad that I haven’t really seen Cameron give a nod to the animators of the film who really did some fantastic work. Then again, you don’t see him giving shout-out’s to the lighting or modeling or concept art teams either. I guess at the end of the day, all you can really expect is a paycheck and your name in the credits, and to be honest, that’s really enough for me. I’m sure he’s not oblivious to the work they did and I’m sure he knows good and well that he couldn’t have made this film without them, but if he wants to focus on the performance capture aspect to help sell the film, I say let him.